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[James]

Those are some interesting points...but while I have many female friends, they are not romantic relationships, any serious relationships I have been in, where there was a common attraction but I pursued friendship first, Sometimes I found romance in an old friend reunited. I have seen many relationships start this way so to discount it willy nilly would be superfluous to my question. I agree the attraction is there...it depends on what you mean by attraction, doesn't necessarily mean automatic physical attraction to all people.
Some look at attractiveness from the inside out. While I would have to include physical attraction as a primary movers, I need to see kind-heartedness, an intellectual and spiritual attraction as well before I would pursue based on looks alone...my teen days are long over. Myself...I prefer to become friends and discover the other manners in which we would connect before jumping into a relationship. Moreover, I don't see the problem with saying hey we're friends..lets go on a date..or do something spontaneous. The motives of the opposite sex may be common to your own. There are lots of us that are tired of meet-markets or the whole club scene altogether. While I have never had a problem in the alpha male category, I don't see the correlation between nice guys finishing last. One can still be a Type A, or alpha male, be ambitious and go-getter be exciting and spontaneous, yet still see many a lady go for that 'bad boy', that seems to treat them like crap and they go back to it.

Seems like a question still very open for debate

[Elma]

when one tries to be a gentleman it seems to be a turnoff these days....is there any room for us romantics out there anymore??

Yes there is.
There are lots of women that want nice gentle men.
At least i want one

[Richard]

No i'm not talking physical attraction. We all know women don't really go for a man because of what he looks like. They're attracted more to his personality traits. How he makes her feel is far more important. Women are run on feelings and emotions. Now bad boys make women feel emotions. They take her on a rollercoaster of emotions she can't help but be addicted to. Even though she knows they're bad for her. Bad boys are like junk food.

In reality though a woman would rather have the alpha male, for the long term anyway. Someone in between the nice guy and the bad boy. It just so happens the bad boy has more alpha traits than the nice guy.

[David]

well done laura...thats exactly what it takes these days..a good mixture of masculinity and gentleness.

[Chic]

I absolutely agree with Richard, from good girl's point of view it's so damn true ,it makes me wonder if you used to be a ...bad boy or a good girl , lolz

[casaloco]

There is a scientific reason for all this.

When looking for a long term partner women look for a "nice" man... someone who will be a good provider and a good father for her children. Someone who will stick with them through thick and thin. This ensures the best chance for her childrens survival.

However, when looking for sexual partners women will do looking for the best DNA... the biggest, strongest, most manly man, in order to give their children the best DNA. Male personality traits like being forward are very attractive for women as if that trait is carried onto their sons through the mans DNA it will increase the chance of their children carrying on the DNA further.

One of the results of this "bi-polar" choice of partner is that 1 in 7 children don't have the father they think they do.

The sort of man a woman will find attractive will depend heavily upon what part of her monthly cycle she is on... at her most fertile time she will go for "manly" man, but will go for "nice" men at the less fertile times.

However these swings have changed in the last decade or so with women feeling more independant there is less need for a "nice" man to support them an provide for them... they are more than happy to bring up their children on their own if need be.

Of course the net result of this change is quite stupid... women tend to date "manly" men or "bad boys" as they often end up becoming. These manly men are usually very forward with big egos. Sadly they are also often aggressive and usually have attitude problems and little respect for women.

The net result is women think all men are jerks who have no respect for women. In reality it's simply because women like to date "bad boys" who tend to be jerks. Only a small percentage of men are jerks, but women are statistically more likely to date the jerks as they exhibit personality traits (like being forward) than women find attractive.

[Yusuf]

There is a scientific reason for all this.

When looking for a long term partner women look for a "nice" man... someone who will be a good provider and a good father for her children. Someone who will stick with them through thick and thin. This ensures the best chance for her childrens survival.

However, when looking for sexual partners women will do looking for the best DNA... the biggest, strongest, most manly man, in order to give their children the best DNA. Male personality traits like being forward are very attractive for women as if that trait is carried onto their sons through the mans DNA it will increase the chance of their children carrying on the DNA further.

One of the results of this "bi-polar" choice of partner is that 1 in 7 children don't have the father they think they do.

The sort of man a woman will find attractive will depend heavily upon what part of her monthly cycle she is on... at her most fertile time she will go for "manly" man, but will go for "nice" men at the less fertile times.

However these swings have changed in the last decade or so with women feeling more independant there is less need for a "nice" man to support them an provide for them... they are more than happy to bring up their children on their own if need be.

Of course the net result of this change is quite stupid... women tend to date "manly" men or "bad boys" as they often end up becoming. These manly men are usually very forward with big egos. Sadly they are also often aggressive and usually have attitude problems and little respect for women.

The net result is women think all men are jerks who have no respect for women. In reality it's simply because women like to date "bad boys" who tend to be jerks. Only a small percentage of men are jerks, but women are statistically more likely to date the jerks as they exhibit personality traits (like being forward) than women find attractive.

My thoughts exactly. Nature plays a big part (imo)

[Simon]

i dont think nice guys finish last at all, however i used to....
there is a difference between being nice and being too nice!! As some others have said, women want a challenge, sure you can compliment her and buy her drinks etc but an air of mystery is always good. You dont have to be so nice that she starts to think she can walk all over you and do whatever she wants, because when you will get walked on. But you can still be nice enough so that she wants to come back for more.

[Palionu]

I apologize for saying this but I'm working off the original topic so I ignored the rest.

I'm what can be considered a 'nice' guy. I was the friend in high school so I got to know the ins and outs of the females personna. I also have a conscience so I can't sleep with women unless its out of an emotional connection. The last time made me feel like crap when she told me she was just using me for sex.. I feel awful.

Ok, tangent aside. Find someone who is a great friend first then talk and consider the possibility of a relationship. Sadly for guys like us, we need commitment and that scares off a majority of the swinging women out there and sadly, those are the types who more readily put themselves out there from observation. Douchebags should simply not be a male only title since there are women like that too, so we have the same problem a lot of women do, finding the right one we can love.

[David]

Thats od, i wonder if they finish at all?? I do find the natural selection theories about attracting girls a bit odd. Natural selection was (at its simplest form) that you had to be fit enough in order to survive. Obviously you cant get a mate if your dead! But ALL of us on here are fit enough to survive. Therefore i think it kind of odd if you have a second theory that says that you also have to go even futher to mate...surely if oyu are fit enough to survive you will also be fit enough to mate and look after your offspring so i dont see why a male has to be "extra tough" to attract a girl, this seems illogical. Plus, a female would want someone to provide for them and look after their children. Jerks are not going to do that so i dont see why they would be attracted to them as that would presumably come through too in assessing attractivness to a male. It also ignores the role of intellegence since this also plays a prat in determining "fitnes to survive" yet females ignore it since "smart" men like myself never get girls either despite the fact that smartness (at the end of the day) is more useful in order to survive. Take humanity. We evolved from apes not because we were the toughest (we were the weakest!) but because we had the biggest brains and actually i think it odd if females are not attracted to intellegence since if not, they never would have evolved into humans with bigger brains. I honestly dont know the truth since im not a female but i do think that this idea that only jerks attract the women seems somewhat unlikely.