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[Liz]

nice guys finish last because they're the ones that get the good last ones. because the ones that get their own fast are the ones who take just any chick that just wants to be wit someone. so juss be patient she'll come along

[Tommy]

I think that u can be nice and u can be smothering. Women have all the confidence and freedom in the world so they dont need to be looked after. U can be a nice guy but at the same time u have to show her that u have respect for urself and that ur not gonna just go out of ur way all the time. And u need to assert urself as the nice guy u are but at the same time not be afraid to step outside urself now and again cos lets face it, u get bored doin the same things every day and expecting the same things every day. Women are looking for that guy with a bit of everything who's willing to go through the ups and downs that life has to offer but at the same time knows who he is and what he wants. Theres nothing wrong with being a nice guy, but when ur nice all the time it can get boring. Thats my take on it hope it helps.

[James]

Cheers all,

I am really glad I started this thread and have appreciated all the insightful genuine thoughts. Marco makes some great points. When I use the term 'nice guy', I don't necessarily refer to the lessons mom taught us as little boys, nor do I mean the superficiality of some perspectives of 'nice guys' - taking off one's coat and laying it on a puddle - perhaps chivalrous overkill or straight BS in the hopes of trying to impress, try too hard and ultimately lead to florid overkill.

Let's face it though, when on say, a first date or lets even predate that to a chance meeting at a club, pub or social function, 99% of the time there is an element of play there where at least one of the parties is not truly being themselves (usually both to some degree). We put on a persona that makes us comfortable in a first encounter but that in essence is not really who we are, but who we think may be to impress the other person or satisfy a fear of rejection. There lies the element of not being genuine and not displaying our true self. In other words we are, in essence, not really being ourselves and in the dating scene, we have to wade through much of the BS each puts out before truly getting to know the reality of the other person. This is for the most part natural to a degree. So yes, trying too hard to be a gentleman can be part of that BS and a primary underpinning of 'the nice guy finishing last'.

Another writer makes a great point of the initial overkill which correlates to my previous mention of the disengenuous first date or encounter. Kissing the ground she walks on, buying the overkill present on a first date. That would find itself somewhere between obsessive and desperate and/or everything in between.

I guess the point when I started this thread was that being genuine and mannered while trying to wade through the inner question of am I seeing this person for who they really are or is this all an act, has often led to 'a nice guy finishing last'. Where I disagree with Marco is that one can be a great person, spontaeous and fun without being a 'jerk', but still be genuine and not have to throw out the BS as a jerk most often might. Moreover, I believe being put in the 'friend' category is the most important first step. Let's face it, infatuation wears off and we all come down to reality at some point and it takes all that time to truly know who one is truly dealing with. I believe friendship is the first relationship upon which all those that truly last is predicated on. At some point we are all going to get old and droopy and you'd better have something to talk about and a common denominator and a devotion that exceeds superficiality for love to be a lasting factor and permit those seemingly declining 25th or 50th year anniverseries we only went to at our grandparents functions.

Believe me, I am no alter boy, yet I have asked this question as it does seem to happen often. Not just in romance, but in business (at least one area where I enjoy success), and other areas of life where, where one is willing to open that door and be the good person and do the right thing with the right intentions and it seemingly allows others to perceive it as a weakness or fault to some degree. I am also not one that has ever been walked over, yet it still perplexes me that to some, seeing someone as nice is an opportunity to take advantage or in a romantic sense present disinterest. One thing I have never been called is boring (was called a few crazy names during those university party days), yet I still wonder.....

Do nice guys truly finish last in romance? Is there a genetic predisposition where the oposite sex looks for the bad boy on some Darwinian level? Should I grow my hair long, buy a Harley and drink Bud instead of scotch (well, I do like my beer, but you get the gist)?

I guess I have noticed it in so many areas of life. Please don't confuse the term I am using 'nice guy', with those with obvious inept social skills.

Where on this earth is the right place for the good-hearted, take-life-by-the-gonads, carpe diem kinda guy that will still buy Grandma flowers and pull your chair out for you, besides the singles dances / cruises / church dances er whatever???

Your input ladies and gents will perhaps help me finally answer this question, so please keep putting your two cents in...I am sure there is an answer out there somwhere.

Cheers

James

[Vince]

think of it this way. not nice guy = gets in fights, is a jerk ya da ya da.
nice guy = probably is very smart and has high paying job, is kind and trustworthy ya da ya da.
girl with jerk finally realises he is a jerk and that she isnt as happy as she thought. she wants to be with a nice and stable guy who can support her and the future chance of a family. who does she search for?
the nice guy. so even tho it may seem the nice guys r finishing last. they win the race.

[freewilly]

married guys finish last, experience counts! so are they nice?
here you go dirty, do bad to be "NICE" its the need of the hour,
you really gotta go dirty and satisfy your girl first,
so she returns repeatedly to you for "MORE"
THAN YOU CAN EXPLODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vince]

married guys finish last, experience counts! so are they nice?
here you go dirty, do bad to be "NICE" its the need of the hour,
you really gotta go dirty and satisfy your girl first,
so she returns repeatedly to you for "MORE"
THAN YOU CAN EXPLODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that is the stupidest thing ive ever heard.

[Glenn]

This question always makes me laugh, it's not true. Usually the problem is that the nice guy/girl asking lacks substance and self respect.

[thedupester]

For a place where we are supposed to "ask a girl" there are an awful lot of "guys" answering.

[Richard]

[quote][/quote] I believe being put in the 'friend' category is the most important first step. Let's face it, infatuation wears off and we all come down to reality at some point and it takes all that time to truly know who one is truly dealing with. I believe friendship is the first relationship upon which all those that truly last is predicated on

James, are you saying being friends with a girl 1st is the foundation for a a successful future relationship? To get put in the friend category is a good thing? Er, no it's not. The fact is if a girl isn't feeling ATTRACTION for you right from early on, then she's likely to NEVER feel it. Once a man is in the friend category he is almost certainly stuck there.

[Richard]

Oh and people please stop saying you're either a nice guy or you're a jerk. That's crap. There are areas in between. The best place to be is obviously somewhere in the middle. You can be fun, exciting, a challenge without being an arsehole. This is what women really want. But few exist. Call him not the nice guy or jerk, but the ALPHA MALE.