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[Juliet]

Depends on what you term a nice guy.I've met guys who have been termed as "nice"but have proved otherwise.
I know the really nice guys do exist,but they stay very very hidden.

[Christie]

the girls who seem not to take kindly to nice men are fools. they obviously have been abused and are stuck with wanting to please the losers who are treating them badly. well ladies get your head out of your butt and wipe away your little baby tears and stand up 4 yourself and MOVE ON. believe me there are many ,many,many good guys still out there looking for you!!!!!

[James]

I have copied my last 2 posts from my thread I started "why do nice guys finish last? check it out as there seems to be a common thread (no pun intended)

I.
The fact is there is a vast difference between niceness and goodness. I am reading a book called "No More Christian Mr, Nice Guy', It makes some interesting points. Just being nice can often seem glib and disengenuous. It is actions not words that count and all the 'niceties' in the world will not mean much if not underpinned with good intentions. I try to be nice when ever I can and do believe in chivalry. However one may be very chivalrous and nice and may simply be acting out with superficial intentions. Then again, I know truly, truly genuinely nice guys with no obvious real ulterior motive except to be genuinely nice to people and seem to get walked all over, Perhaps it's an indication of the direction humanity is going. Perhaps being genuinely nice allows a door for people to take advantage or may just seem boring to them.
I guess I can only draw from my own experience. I try to be as nice and gentlemanly as I was brought up to be and often met with disinterest. At times when I have not been interested, although I wouldn't stop being nice to someone although I seemed to generate more interest.

Cheers

James

II.
I am really glad I started this thread and have appreciated all the insightful genuine thoughts. Marco makes some great points. When I use the term 'nice guy', I don't necessarily refer to the lessons mom taught us as little boys, nor do I mean the superficiality of some perspectives of 'nice guys' - taking off one's coat and laying it on a puddle - perhaps chivalrous overkill or straight BS in the hopes of trying to impress, try too hard and ultimately lead to florid overkill.

Let's face it though, when on say, a first date or lets even predate that to a chance meeting at a club, pub or social function, 99% of the time there is an element of play there where at least one of the parties is not truly being themselves (usually both to some degree). We put on a persona that makes us comfortable in a first encounter but that in essence is not really who we are, but who we think may be to impress the other person or satisfy a fear of rejection. There lies the element of not being genuine and not displaying our true self. In other words we are, in essence, not really being ourselves and in the dating scene, we have to wade through much of the BS each puts out before truly getting to know the reality of the other person. This is for the most part natural to a degree. So yes, trying too hard to be a gentleman can be part of that BS and a primary underpinning of 'the nice guy finishing last'.

Another writer makes a great point of the initial overkill which correlates to my previous mention of the disengenuous first date or encounter. Kissing the ground she walks on, buying the overkill present on a first date. That would find itself somewhere between obsessive and desperate and/or everything in between.

I guess the point when I started this thread was that being genuine and mannered while trying to wade through the inner question of am I seeing this person for who they really are or is this all an act, has often led to 'a nice guy finishing last'. Where I disagree with Marco is that one can be a great person, spontaneous and fun without being a 'jerk', but still be genuine and not have to throw out the BS as a jerk most often might. Moreover, I believe being put in the 'friend' category is the most important first step. Let's face it, infatuation wears off and we all come down to reality at some point and it takes all that time to truly know who one is truly dealing with. I believe friendship is the first relationship upon which all those that truly last is predicated on. At some point we are all going to get old and droopy and you'd better have something to talk about and a common denominator and a devotion that exceeds superficiality for love to be a lasting factor and permit those seemingly declining 25th or 50th year anniverseries we only went to at our grandparents functions.

Believe me, I am no alter boy, yet I have asked this question as it does seem to happen often. Not just in romance, but in business (at least one area where I enjoy success), and other areas of life where, where one is willing to open that door and be the good person and do the right thing with the right intentions and it seemingly allows others to perceive it as a weakness or fault to some degree. I am also not one that has ever been walked over, yet it still perplexes me that to some, seeing someone as nice is an opportunity to take advantage or in a romantic sense present disinterest. One thing I have never been called is boring (was called a few crazy names during those university party days), yet I still wonder.....

Do nice guys truly finish last in romance? Is there a genetic predisposition where the oposite sex looks for the bad boy on some Darwinian level? Should I grow my hair long, buy a Harley and drink Bud instead of scotch (well, I do like my beer, but you get the gist)?

I guess I have noticed it in so many areas of life. Please don't confuse the term I am using 'nice guy', with those with obvious inept social skills.

Where on this earth is the right place for the good-hearted, take-life-by-the-gonads, carpe diem kinda guy that will still buy Grandma flowers and pull your chair out for you, besides the singles dances / cruises / church dances er whatever???

Your input ladies and gents will perhaps help me finally answer this question, so please keep putting your two cents in...I am sure there is an answer out there somwhere.

Cheers

James

I guess I always thought having a great sense of humor, being genuine and truly taking an interest in the other person without espousing it with the need to impress or overkill was the key, but it just seems the 'bad boy is in'...the nice guy has lots of friends

[Michael]

[quote="Abeer"]the problem is n't that if girls like nice guys , the problem is there is no nice guys these days .
so sure every girl looking for a nice guy .[no nice guys these days? stop being attracted to jerks and you will find us ]

[The Fireman]

I'm agree with all you guys, actually, I'm a little dissapointed about the girls (in general) on my generation (and it seems to be the same for you), I think I'm a nice guy, a gentleman, kind with girls, listen to them, give them time, trusting on them, and this may sound "weird" because I am a guy, but...I have even fully opened my heart to them, and they don't seem to be any interested on it...women always says "I want a real man, someone who cares about me, a gentleman, someone who listen to me, to protect me and make me feel loved, someone in which I can trust, someone who wants to be with me forever..." and I feel kinda...sad/angry because I think "I am (or I think I am) all that she's saying!! why don't she wants to be with me? u_u" I think I'm not ugly neither, so...what is what you're really looking for girls? I don't understand...

I have the same exact problem that you have man !!! What is with these girls ???

[Gabriele]

I think that the problem is, that girls want a strong tempered person. I mean, not I guy, who does everything what the girl says him to do. That is just... bad.


In my position, I like men who are romantic, mistereous and way better than me, e.g. excceed me in intelegence, phichological strenght, creativity etc.

[Mick]

i found that when you treat a women properly they never seem interested, yet so many women seem to go out with guys who couldn't care less about how they treat her?


Just want to say thanks to everyone who replied to this posts
and thanks to anne i think your post may have helped.

I totally agree with you , treat somegirls like dirt and your the bees knees, treat them nice and your a wussy???

[dylan]

there are women that like the nasty side of a guy an then you got women that would love to have a guy like me I respect women for who they are not what thy can do for me .
I belive in old fashion romance an I'm sure there are men an women that agree an disagree with what I'm saying thous that disagree go read the bible an your see nice guys rules

[Troy]

I do believe that girls like nice guys, but I have found out that almost all girls think there is a motive behind being nice. I can understand why some women would go for the bad boys, they know their intentions before they even go on the date, nice guys are unpredictable. Women dont know what their gonna end up with at the end of the night with a nice guy.

Oh and guys, something that Anne said, not directly, but it was implied, get a job, get your own place, get your own ride, and the nice guy look doesnt look so bad!

Ok girls, prove me wrong if I am, otherwise give the nice guys a few more chances, some of them really are nice guys.

[William]

I just had to respond to this because the guy spelled actually wrong, thats some funny stuff right there. But I would have to say that the answer to this question can never be answered. A few reasons why, one, it depends on the girl, 2, it depends on the guy, and 3, it depends on how nice and how soon the guy is nice. Thats what I have learned, it hasnt changed me though, I am super duper nice, its just who I am, if a woman cant deal with that from the start then she doesnt deserve me. nuff said!